Comments on: Preaching, Plagiarism, and Living the Grind http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/ Busted Knuckles and a Broken Halo Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:48:43 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Tom in Ontario http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2363 Tom in Ontario Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:51:26 +0000 http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2363 I always got to textweek. On occasion I've read someone elses sermon from there and I gave credit to the writer/preacher. That's not plagiarism. Often I'll take someone's thoughts and ideas from one of those sermons and digest them, massage them, and eventually they feel like my own even though they're not originally my own. I don't know if that's plagiarism. I use other people's illustrations or quote something but I don't always attribute them by name. I'll say "one preacher has said" or something to that effect. Is that plagiarism? Maybe, but I heard sermons that are quote after quote after quote from other people and each time the preacher has said "[so and so] writes" and sometimes even cites the book or article and that so disrupts the flow of the sermon. I admit that I borrow a lot. I don't know if I'm looking for absolution. I just don't find that I can do it any other way. I don't know where I'd find the time or make the time to write a sermon any other way. Once in a very odd while I sit down and type it all out from myself (or the Spirit's inspiration) but those occasions are becoming more and more rare. Maybe I'm just getting lazy. I don't know. I always got to textweek. On occasion I’ve read someone elses sermon from there and I gave credit to the writer/preacher. That’s not plagiarism.

Often I’ll take someone’s thoughts and ideas from one of those sermons and digest them, massage them, and eventually they feel like my own even though they’re not originally my own. I don’t know if that’s plagiarism.

I use other people’s illustrations or quote something but I don’t always attribute them by name. I’ll say “one preacher has said” or something to that effect. Is that plagiarism? Maybe, but I heard sermons that are quote after quote after quote from other people and each time the preacher has said “[so and so] writes” and sometimes even cites the book or article and that so disrupts the flow of the sermon.

I admit that I borrow a lot. I don’t know if I’m looking for absolution. I just don’t find that I can do it any other way. I don’t know where I’d find the time or make the time to write a sermon any other way. Once in a very odd while I sit down and type it all out from myself (or the Spirit’s inspiration) but those occasions are becoming more and more rare. Maybe I’m just getting lazy. I don’t know.

]]> By: Eric http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2356 Eric Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:26:13 +0000 http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2356 Thank you for your post. It is good to know that I am not alone in this thinking. The steps you list are the same ones I use in preparing the sermons I write (by the way, I am the "Eric" the Andy referred to). And as others have said, I fight the temptation to rush to commentaries right a way. But I do feel it is important to read the text and then live with it for a while. After all, that is how we hear what Word needs to be preached to God's people (including me). On Thursday I took some of my parishoners to Prisoners of Hope Lutheran Church in Appleton, MN. It is an ELCA congregation in the prison. After reading the text for this week and then "going to prison", my sermon focus is taking a little shift (I am still not entirely sure on the shift, but I feel the movement). I am glad I have lived with the text for a while. Thanks again for your thoughts. Eric P.S. I still do not feel arrogant for writing an "original" sermon. Thank you for your post. It is good to know that I am not alone in this thinking. The steps you list are the same ones I use in preparing the sermons I write (by the way, I am the “Eric” the Andy referred to). And as others have said, I fight the temptation to rush to commentaries right a way. But I do feel it is important to read the text and then live with it for a while. After all, that is how we hear what Word needs to be preached to God’s people (including me). On Thursday I took some of my parishoners to Prisoners of Hope Lutheran Church in Appleton, MN. It is an ELCA congregation in the prison. After reading the text for this week and then “going to prison”, my sermon focus is taking a little shift (I am still not entirely sure on the shift, but I feel the movement). I am glad I have lived with the text for a while. Thanks again for your thoughts.
Eric
P.S. I still do not feel arrogant for writing an “original” sermon.

]]> By: jWinters http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2354 jWinters Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:13:24 +0000 http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2354 Great post LP! I shy away from translating stuff out, and I self-impose a 7 hours per sermon rule. Sometimes I fudge. Still - the greatest part of this time is actually READING the text. I once had a prof who told me, "look, you don't need to translate this out of Greek, but you do need to read it for as long as it would take you to translate it." jW Great post LP!
I shy away from translating stuff out, and I self-impose a 7 hours per sermon rule. Sometimes I fudge.
Still – the greatest part of this time is actually READING the text. I once had a prof who told me, “look, you don’t need to translate this out of Greek, but you do need to read it for as long as it would take you to translate it.”

jW

]]> By: lutherpunk http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2353 lutherpunk Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:41:06 +0000 http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2353 What is funny is that step 2 doesn't take all that long. Some weeks for me this may only be 20-30 minutes. Other weeks it is considerably longer. I tend to spend more time with the more familiar texts simply because of all the "inherited" ideas that come with them. Using lectio has been a big help. And Andy, you are right about the postils. I also think that what you lift up about Augustine that is relevant here is that truly "there is nothing new under the sun." What is funny is that step 2 doesn’t take all that long. Some weeks for me this may only be 20-30 minutes. Other weeks it is considerably longer. I tend to spend more time with the more familiar texts simply because of all the “inherited” ideas that come with them. Using lectio has been a big help.

And Andy, you are right about the postils. I also think that what you lift up about Augustine that is relevant here is that truly “there is nothing new under the sun.”

]]> By: Andy http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2351 Andy Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:51:45 +0000 http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2351 Didn't Luther write the House Postils specifically to serve as a starting point for Lutheran preachers? This is a fascinating topic for me as a non-preacher to listening in on. <a href="http://www.erichullstrom.typepad.com/" rel="nofollow">Eric</a> was wrestling with this same article on his blog, wondering whether or not he was being arrogant in insisting on writing his own sermons. (He ultimately decided not.) Another connection here touches on you comments about Augustine. I recently read a book about Augustinian spirituality which touched on the fact that Augustine anticipates Descartes' <i>cogito ergo sum</i> argument in several places. The author observed that if the idea behind <i>cogito ergo sum</i> came to Descartes from outside himself, then his whole argument is blown. Didn’t Luther write the House Postils specifically to serve as a starting point for Lutheran preachers?

This is a fascinating topic for me as a non-preacher to listening in on. Eric was wrestling with this same article on his blog, wondering whether or not he was being arrogant in insisting on writing his own sermons. (He ultimately decided not.)

Another connection here touches on you comments about Augustine. I recently read a book about Augustinian spirituality which touched on the fact that Augustine anticipates Descartes’ cogito ergo sum argument in several places. The author observed that if the idea behind cogito ergo sum came to Descartes from outside himself, then his whole argument is blown.

]]> By: Art http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2349 Art Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:16:40 +0000 http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2349 It sounds so obvious, but Derek is right. I have that tendency to want to rush to the commentaries... BTW, did you know that Bishop Willimon has a blog, A Peculiar Prophet(http://willimon.blogspot.com)? It sounds so obvious, but Derek is right. I have that tendency to want to rush to the commentaries…

BTW, did you know that Bishop Willimon has a blog, A Peculiar Prophet(http://willimon.blogspot.com)?

]]> By: Derek the Ænglican http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2348 Derek the Ænglican Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:47:30 +0000 http://lutherpunk.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/preaching-plagiarism-and-living-the-grind/#comment-2348 Oddly enough, the step most often skipped is number 2: read the text. It's amazing how many things preachers will do that avoid the text. Commentaries are an easy one; so is stripping out a convenient theme. Actually sitting with the text, determining what it is saying, and being open to how it is challenging you and your congregation is <b>really hard work</b>. Oddly enough, the step most often skipped is number 2: read the text. It’s amazing how many things preachers will do that avoid the text. Commentaries are an easy one; so is stripping out a convenient theme. Actually sitting with the text, determining what it is saying, and being open to how it is challenging you and your congregation is really hard work.

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